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Ours Karmapa! =))))))) Наш Кармапа!!!!
Comments filled with ignorance: who the real one is and who is not? IN Buddhism faith is all it matters. It is said that if you have faith, that even worshipping to an ordinary object will you be able to draw Buddha out of it. The reincarnation is basically divided into KU SUNG THUG, the mind, the body and speech. So there are possibility of three reincarnations of Karmapa. Anyways Buddhism is not about worshipping, but liberation of mind through self realization.
red hat karmapa was no more when thaye dorje was born. not only red chinese but also dalai lama recognized trinley dorje as karmapa. only time will disclose the truth. the fake will disappear.
indeed...
I'd advise you to look up the definition of religion, Eewwca... I think you'll find that it IS NOT quite compatible with Buddhism... Religion comes from the Greek "religens" meaning "to revere the gods"... It specifically applies to the acknowledgment and appeasing of a god or gods.
Eduardo, this is a gross oversimplification.
His Holiness Urgyen Trinley Dorje doesn't speak English, but he seems very very humble & sweet to me, from the little I can guess from hearing him speak in a language I don't know. I think Thaye Dorje exudes a more "Westernized" confidence, but I don't know if its ego... But I have not seen him live either.
Well said.
The Ego is a very useful tool when it is trained and made a servant of the Dharma. This is a Vital technology of Awareness-coupled-to-impermanent-Form. Though utilizing a human body and directly harnessing, tempering, and strengthening Bhodhisattva-oriented Ego coherent and complete Guidance, Protection and lasting Benefit for All Beings is possible. Karmapas' Egoic natures -must- be very large to accomplish his commitments. Viewing Ego as only disturbance is an impediment to Realisation.
I saw this guy live, I had the feeling that he had a huge ego. If I see the other one live, I could compare. Maybe both have huge ego's?
Of course you're right that disrespecting a bodhisattva is negative karma. I've found that some posters later change their minds or soften their position, and this freedom should be preserved. Also the way to benefit most beings in the long run IMO is to promote an attitude of calm, fearless inquiry, tolerance and transparency. It was the bad old ways of not being able to question holy subjects or teachers that got us into this mess in the first place. So I only delete truly useless comments.
Simple: Red Hat Karmapa recognized Thaye Dorje as Karmapa. Red chinese recognized Orgyen Trinley Dorje as Karmapa.
I think that Gandalf should delete all the comments that lack of respect for His Holiness, the Victorious Karmapa Thaye Dorje. It is a great negative karma to criticize such a great Bodhisattva, and we should not permit here.
Dear violapeipei, Rather than go into explanations here, you can find all about it on Wikipedia by searching for 17th Karmapa.
what is going on? why have 2 karmapas? where is on come from??? is some one can help me
You're not quite right. The last time I saw him im August in Germany we were over 5 thousand people in the Gompa :-) You cannot really call us nobody :-) No other than the Shamarpa was teached to find the signs that lead to the recognisation of a Karmapa incarnation. Not even the other lineage holders have the same knowledge and authority as the Shamarpa by such a quest. I respect the Dalai Lama endless, he's a great leader, but he is not supposed to do Shamarpa's job.
Now now, no need to be rude. H.H Shamar Rinpoche is the highest lama in the Karma Kagyu lineage after Karmapa. Who is 'rogue' is clearly a matter of perspective. And being Karmapa is still not a popularity contest, neither in the West nor in India.
Maybe you're right. But people can sometimes get trapped by circumstances, including things they themselves have said in the past.
Dalai Lama has never and never will recognised both. He has said publicly in Gangtok Sikkim, in 1993, that there is but one holder of the throne of Karmapa, and that holder of the throne, is Orgyen Trinley Dorje. And no one forces Dalai lama to do anything he does not want to. Certainly not the Chinese. On the contrary
Why dont you take this loser off the Internet? No one but no one recognises him in the Kagyu lineage, except for Shamar R. who actually is a rogue lama. And in the Western Buddhist circles, or in India (where I spent 11 years), hardly anybody cares about this guy.
Not sure about that, but thanks for your reply and the quote. If only everyone was as reasonable as in this advice, the world would be a much better place, eh!
Gandalf1976,Thanks for your replied. you have achieved more than me in Buddhism and i would like to share this Buddha quote with you"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."BUDDHA
How interesting; I hadn't heard that.
Dalai Lama recognizes both according to Shangpa Rinpoche. He is just forced to recognize Orgyen Trinley officially.
You're right, they didn't teach him to fake anything.